Island Man

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Posts by Island Man

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  31

  Does anyone have the 2014 stats from the 2015 Yearbook yet?

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  does anyone have the 2014 stats from the 2015 yearbook yet?.

  (isn't it usually out by now - or are they waiting to celebrate new year's day?

  ).

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  Island Man

  I think the discrepancy between the percentage increase and less baptisms could also be partly due to disfellowshipped JWs being reinstated. The hype about 2014 being 100 years since the birth of the kingdom could have scared some indoctrinated DF'd JWs into returning. They would add to the increase in publishers without showing up as new baptisms. 
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  13

  What do Jehovah's Witnesses look like to Non-Cult members

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. social
  2. humour

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  Island Man

  That ain't Tony. That's Lett. Watchtower-Free, that has got to be the funniest JW meme I've ever seen! ROFLOL :laughing:
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  15

  Why I HATE the WTS

  by berrygerry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as a baby-boomer, i went through the pre-1975 bs without giving it any credence.. even as a youngster, my mind said: "if jesus said that no man knows the day or hour, then why the h is everyone saying that a is coming in oct.

  " and i left as a teen.. for whatever insane reason, i was convinced to return a number of years later, and sadly, got dunked.. major faux pas.. in previous posts, i have mentioned my endearing love of great rock (god bless rock and roll), esp.

  my teen faves bto, etc.. attending this concert ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yukhsmphvvo ) and watching fred turner's fingers drive me crazy, as one of my children has music in his soul and the fingers of a protege.. i hate that this cult destroys the orgasmic satisfaction that comes from the giving and receiving of pleasure from each others' developed or natural talents or gifts.. god bless rock and roll.. .

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  Island Man

  I've often wondered about this myself. How many "greats" has WT crushed by depriving a person the opportunity to gift the world with their talents?

  Thank God they didn't succeed in crushing Michael Jackson's talent!
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  12

  Wisdom in "the Word of God". Really? What Watchtower got wrong at this week's Congregation "Bible" Study.

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the congregation "bible" study (cbs) for the week of december 29, 2014 to january 4, 2015 was taken from draw close to jehovah, pages 179-182, paragraphs 1-8.. paragraph 3 seems to be using the ancient jew's fear of jehovah's thunderous voice to justify the wisdom of him using moses to record and transmit his laws to the people.

  but there is an implied false dichotomy here.

  since god is supposedly almighty he is most certainly capable of giving a personal revelation of his requirements to every human in a clear, concise and unambiguous manner that they can fully understand and remember - without having to use his thunderous voice.

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  Island Man

  Thanks for the comments all. I especially appreciate the point about the low levels of literacy in bible times. This is something that Watchtower appears to be in denial about.
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  12

  Wisdom in "the Word of God". Really? What Watchtower got wrong at this week's Congregation "Bible" Study.

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the congregation "bible" study (cbs) for the week of december 29, 2014 to january 4, 2015 was taken from draw close to jehovah, pages 179-182, paragraphs 1-8.. paragraph 3 seems to be using the ancient jew's fear of jehovah's thunderous voice to justify the wisdom of him using moses to record and transmit his laws to the people.

  but there is an implied false dichotomy here.

  since god is supposedly almighty he is most certainly capable of giving a personal revelation of his requirements to every human in a clear, concise and unambiguous manner that they can fully understand and remember - without having to use his thunderous voice.

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  Island Man

  The Congregation "Bible" Study (CBS) for the week of December 29, 2014 to January 4, 2015 was taken from Draw Close To Jehovah, pages 179-182, paragraphs 1-8.

  Paragraph 3 seems to be using the ancient Jew's fear of Jehovah's thunderous voice to justify the wisdom of him using Moses to record and transmit his laws to the people. But there is an implied false dichotomy here. Since God is supposedly Almighty he is most certainly capable of giving a personal revelation of his requirements to every human in a clear, concise and unambiguous manner that they can fully understand and remember - without having to use his thunderous voice. Such a "holy download" into the brain of every human would not only ensure that all know and understand God's requirements but would also, by its very nature, provide convincing evidence of it's divine source since each human can see that the message he received perfectly correlates with that received by others and yet is communicated is different words to suit the knowledge, understanding and unique background of each individual.

  There would also be little cause for doubting the accuracy and divine authorship of the message as happens when it is conveyed to a few humans who in turn write it down so that it can be copied from generation to generation, leaving later generations in the position of having to trust the claim of human tradition which says it is the handed down written word of God.

  Paragraph 4 makes the point about how writing the law down solved the issue of the difficulty of having to remember so many laws. But isn't that exactly what rank and file Israelites living in Moses' day had to do? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that the Law was only readily available to the priests who were charged with orally instructing the rest of the nation? Regular Israelites didn't have the luxury of consulting their own personal copy of the Law like bible owners today have.

  Mention is made too about the inaccuracy of conveying the message orally from generation to generation. This point is valid but the personal revelation method I mentioned above addresses this issue better than creating a written record in ancient Hebrew which then has to be translated in myriads of future languages, many of which do not have the vocabulary to exactly convey the message as it is in the native ancient Hebrew. In other words, having to translate also introduces errors, or more accurately, it obscures or waters down the message. A personal Revelation tailor made to each individual who is born at all times in history, solves such problems perfectly.

  Paragraphs 7 and 8 talk about the wisdom of God using human writers. It mentions the great knowledge and wisdom of angels then turns around and says the angels would not have been able to convey God's message to humans in the best way for us to appreciate it. What a contradiction! In actuality it would have been better for angels to have been used. Why? Angels have greater insight into God's true nature than any human can. Also, given that angels have the opportunity to observe humans for many centuries, they would be able to sift out the truly timeless and universal human qualities from those that are specific to one particular culture living at one particular time. Thus they would be able to convey God's message in a manner that would be understandable to all humans living at all times. By contrast, having the bible written by humans living in ancient Palestine, results in the creation of a book filled with archaic language and cultural references that are not only difficult to understand and translate to other future cultures of humans, but are also often offensive to them.

  So a better job most certainly could have been done. While recording the bible is better than relying on oral tradition, it is certainly not the most wise option that one would expect from an all wise God, given that this particular method also has serious issues. God giving a clear personal revelation to each individual living at all times is most certainly a much better option that removes a lot of the issue that comes with a once for all time written record made thousands of years ago in archaic language with archaic cultural references that future generations find hard to translate, understand and stomach. 

  
  
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  62

  Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.

  by Johnny Brown in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

  10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.

  11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+

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  Island Man

  "It is certainly true that JWs do not view Jesus in the same way as early christians. . . .
  However it is a mistake to go to the other extreme and try to read the trinity back into the text. The trinity is a post-biblical attempt to reconcile monotheism with worship of Jesus."

  Amen to that! The bible does not teach a trinity, but does clearly show that Jesus has a very high positioned and should be honored greater than the JWs are honoring him. Trinitarians and JWs have extreme opposing viewpoints of the nature of Jesus that is inconsistent with what the bible says of him. The Jesus of the bible is somewhere in the middle. First century christians did not believe in a trinity, but they definitely esteemed Jesus more than JWs do.
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  62

  Your explanation for a total contradiction in the New World Translation.

  by Johnny Brown in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  "for if you publicly declare with your mouth that jesus is lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that god raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.

  10 for with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.

  11 for the scripture says: no one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.+

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  Island Man

  I have a serious issue with the NWT's insertion of "Jehovah" in the NT when there isn't a single Greek NT manuscripts containing the name of God. The insertion of "Jehovah" into the NT of the NWT has corrupted some NT texts. Romans 14:8 is a notable example of this, where the NWT erroneously renders "kyrios" (Lord) as "Jehovah" even though the very next verse (Romans 14:9) makes it clear that the "kyrios" of Romans 14:8 refers to Jesus and not Jehovah.

  However, even though I don't agree with the NWT replacing "kyrios" with "Jehovah" at Romans 10:13, the fact is that that particular "kyrios" does in fact refer to "Jehovah" (YHWH). I say this because Romans 10:13 is quoting an OT text - Joel 2:32 - that uses YHWH. It might be tempting, from a Trinitarian standpoint, to use Romans 10:13 to suggest that Jesus is Jehovah given that Romans 10:9-11 speak about the importance of faith in Jesus.

  But Romans 10:13 is only being used to bolster a point made in Romans 10:12 and the point being made at Romans 10:12 is the impartiality of God. Romans 10:13 was quoted by the writer as an OT example of God's impartiality because it says EVERYONE who calls on God's name will be saved. It's simply not an attempt on the part of the writer to suggest that YHWH of the OT is the same Jesus of the NT.

  Having said that, it is also possible that the writer of Romans 10:13 considers calling on the name of Jesus to be tantamount to calling on the name of Jehovah and therefore in fulfillment of Joel 2:32 - all without intending to suggest that Jehovah is Jesus. How so? Think about it: Jesus means "YHWH is salvation" and Joel 2:32 says people will be saved by calling on the name of YHWH. The name Jesus embodies in one word the message of Joel 2:32. Jesus is YHWH's provision for salvation. By calling on the name Jesus in faith, one is putting faith in YHWH's provision of salvation and is therefore putting faith  in YHWH. He is quite literally saying: "YHWH is salvation". So calling on the name of Jesus is really calling on the name of Jehovah by proxy, as it were. So it is very possible and very reasonable for the writer to apply Joel 2:32 to calling on the name of Jesus in faith without believing or intending to suggest that Jesus is Jehovah.
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  5

  truly frustrated! !

  by crazyguy1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have faded away but the wife and kids still go.

  when i stopped others in the hall stepped up to help indoctrination the kids.

  anything i say and tell the kids they don't want to listen too because of course its contrary to what their told at the lovely hall where their friends go.

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  Island Man

  Teach your kids how to think logically and critically, without bringing up the subject of religion or JWs.

  School them in the psychologically manipulative tactics that manipulative deceivers and charlatans use. Raise their awareness of the need to listen to all sides of a story and do objective and independent research.

  You could discuss with your kids things like dictatorial govt. regimes like North Korea who censor the information that comes into their country from the outside and feed the populace only the govt's version of what is true and right. Ask them why such regimes do that. Ask them why such regimes are afraid of critical information getting to the populace.

  You can read for them a story called "The Emperor's New Clothes" and discuss with them what lessons can be learned from the story.

  You have to basically empower your kids to learn how to think for themselves and see through the JW bs for what it really is - bs - by inoculating them against JW tactics without ever bringing up the subject of JWs.
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  11

  ancient ruins

  by crazyguy1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  they have discovered a temple complex in turkey they call gobekli tepi and another in southern iran they tentatively call arata.

  both of these sites were discovered in the last decade or two and are being dated to older then 12000 years ago.

  can anyone explain how they go about dating these site since carbon 14 dating doesnt work on stone and theres no patina or very little since these places were buried?

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  Island Man

  "but that's impossible! Man was created just about 6040 years ago, so how can there possibly be a temple ruin that is 12,000 years old. These scientists don't know what they're talking about. The dating method is questionable. The global flood caused changes that resulted in a change in rate of radioactive decay, don't you know. So all those radioactive dating methods are questionable - never mind the fact that they all dove tail around the same period and match other forms of non-radioactive dating methods. The scientists are lying too. Satan has them under his control so they lie to contradict the truths of God's word." LOL.
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  2

  Similarities with North Korean leadership

  by stillin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i wonder whether nk leader un has even seen this movie, "the interview.

  " he might even get a laugh out of it.

  but the censorship is so similar to the censorship found among jw's!

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  Island Man

  It's all over the news that NK is verbally attacking the US because of that very said movie. Trust me, Un has seen the movie! LOL

  http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/26/world/asia/north-korea-the-interview-reaction/index.html?hpt=hp_t1